Trent Reznor and his Nine Inch Nails b%$@!slapped their way to the front page of success in Social Media by doing just what all the social media experts say to do. They blindly jumped in and tried to connect with as many people as possible.
Reznor recently posted a letter on the NIN forum expressing his stance on Social Media:
“The reason no record label knows how to market anything to new media is they don’t live there. They don’t get it because they don’t use it. What you’ve seen happen with the marketing and presentation of NIN over the last years is a direct result of living next to you, listening to you, consuming with you and interacting with you. Directly. There’s no handlers or PR people here, it’s me and my guys – that’s it. There’s no real plan, even – it’s just trying to do the right thing that respects you the fan, the music, and me the artist. That’s the goal – a mutual and shared respect.”
Transparency was the rule of the day and we learned a lot about the people behind the band. Things seemed to be going well. Interaction was at an all-time high and NIN seemed to be the glory child of Social Media success.
Then things started to go sour. NIN’s fundraising efforts for Eric De La Cruz resulted in more than $.5million for the cause…as well as some intense criticism. A horde of trolls, emboldened by the anonymous nature of online interactions, began chasing Reznor over Twitter, online forums, and through blogs.
The saying goes “no good deed goes unpunished” and the trolls were dedicated to punishing Reznor for his efforts.
In his own words, “I watched some of you get more engaged because you started to realize there’s a person (flaws and all) back there, and I watched some of you recoil in horror because I’m not what you projected on me.“ Because Reznor made himself available as a human with a personality, he also opened himself up to those who spout bile just to get a response.
He finished with, “I will be tuning out of the social networking sites because at the end of the day it’s now doing more harm than good in the bigger picture and the experiment seems to have yielded a result. Idiots rule.”
You can read the rest of his post but the point remains clear: A small group of haters ruined his experience.
A few weeks back, I had a conversation with Darren Rowse from Problogger about a blog that seemed bent on ruining his good name. I reflected on the bilious posts thrown at me and offered him my mantra: “Haters are just fans with frowns.” He laughed but we both knew that a mantra doesn’t fix the pain of being attacked without good reason. If you are truly interested in engaging your community you will find impossible to completely ignore the haters.
I don’t have an ending for this post. There’s no dramatic conclusion. I have some definite ideas about how businesses can make the most of social media but I’m still foggy on a good way to approach the haters who simply want to hate for personal reasons. Feel free to ramble. I’m grateful for you.
That did kinda kick me in the nuts. I loved Trents rants and I thought that after all these years he'd be used to his haters. But, I wish him well in his next project, or if he does nothing at all.
We need to think carefully about the tools we create for interaction. Trolling should be hard. Blocking and filtering should be easy. How we build social sites and software influences the behaviour of those who use them.
I was once a member of a big creative local community once. And from my observations, there are 2 big groups of really creative people: ones that can handle criticism well, and ones that can't. The later either started their own holy war or left to different communities, where there were no criticism, only blind support and prise.
To sum it up, social media is not your fan page. Nor do you have to be perfect to be on social media. It is enough to be authentic. Its up to you how and if you use feedback you get. Nor you will necessarily be better/more known/etc just because you are on social media
That's my 2 cents tho.
I think he'll be back, just in a more clarified way. He's a thoughtful dude and will figure this out. I hope.
Either way, this is a discussion we need to be having about Social Media. Time to put down the KoolAid and pick up a shovel. y'know?
It's too bad that the trolls are there, but they probably always will be unless the world becomes a utopian paradise, which would be terribly boring anyways. To all of you, celebs, bloggers, etc who have a responsive following, the only solution I see is the old adage of growing a thicker skin. Easier said then done, we all feel pain when attacked. All we can do is feel sorry for those who have had such a sorry life that it has turned them into emotionally crippled people. Good post, Seth.
100% agree with you. Right now, Twitter is doing a terrible job at that. Blocked accounts still show up in my stream as do tweets from people I'm not following. There's no authentication process so if I block one account, the user simply opens up another if they want to have at me again. It's a drag.
Wondering if a 3rd party system will be the first to find a solution?
I agree with you in that the negative can often be the closest thing to the truth you can hope for from your interactions with the public.
Reznor wasn't dealing with criticism of his music though. He was facing outright attacks on himself as a person. That's a problem.
I think people freak out a bit when they first face raging hatred in writing. I know I was befuddled when I first had it directed at me. It's easier now. You look for the positive and let the rest roll back into the sea. Like filleting a fish. =)
If your skin grows too thick, you stop responding at all, yes? I think it's important to stay malleable and open to new ideas.
Understanding the hatred comes from confusion seems like a good place to start. I agree.
Hmm, what about putting a focus on the positive to the point that everything else is considered rubbish and ignored? The pollyanna principle for social media?
There's got to be a balance somewhere.
Thanks Roger!
Yes, first attack can be intimidating
Though I see no big difference if attacks are about you as musician or a person as you have to bring yourself whole in social media. The thing is.. if Reznor gets criticism as musician, he can professionally decide if the statements makes sense. It is harder to detach emotionally from personal remarks, but it is absolutely necessary to distinguish trolls. I liked the fish example, suits well in this case.
I totally agree with you two.
If it's on your work, you know that there will be criticism on IT. But, when it's against you, as a person it's much harder to either accept or build off of it.
@Giedrius – I only like it because it implies that I get to knife them in the process. =)
@GM – Definitely. When it's personal, it comes down to your perspective. If you're expecting to be attacked, things will always look like attacks. If you're focused on the positive, there's a chance you can get some value out of the heat. I try to…it's really, really hard to do though.
Thanks!
Jeez, what a lightweight pantywaist. Perhaps he should have had some combat training beforehand. USENET might have been good.
Either that, or he is just too sensitive a flower for the callous intermong.
Lol. Here's an idea:
Put together a post outlining an online “bootcamp” that teaches people how to deal with haters. Might be the best thing ever.
I don't think he's sensitive. People were pretty harsh. It's a tough thing no matter who you are. y'know?
Thanks!
Wow. Just wow. First, I can't believe Reznor was so easily influenced by the idiots. Fuck the idiots. Let them rot. Second, I had a similar experience in January the night before the inauguration where I was 'attacked' by hate bots and hate people when I proclaimed my love for this country in that we were able to see beyond skin color to choose our leader. Within minutes, I was slammed on Twitter by idiots. I locked down immediately. Over the next couple of weeks I took a deep breath and reevaluated what I wanted SM to be for me – and what potential it had to me in the bigger realm of things. Thanks to people like you Seth, I decided that there was a helluva lot more positive than negative here – and that the idiots will never go away. You just have to deal with them differently. Give an idiot a soapbox and they always think they're the most important person in the room.
Thankfully there are more of us than them. I hope Reznor comes back. No, I didn't follow him, but I'd hate to think that he was defeated by idiots. He needs to be more than that.
I think he'll be back after some time off. It's good to take time off. It's also good to have clear goals of what you want to see as a result from a tool.
Lots of people are saying “you can't track the returns from Social Media, you just have to jump in and try it” but that doesn't mean you can't have clear goals and a contingency plan for when things fall apart.
He's a rockstar. He's pissed. He doesn't need extra anger in his life right now. I say let him sit for a bit. He'll be back. The alternative is to try and cozy up with Sony…ahha. right.
There's a huge amount of positive to be had here. Yes. It only takes one rotten potato to smell up the whole bin though.
On Twitter, at least, if there was less focus on getting followers and more focus on following people of interest, I think the system would regulate itself better.
Sometimes mantras and that inner space of deep calm is all
you have to resort to if you want balance!
Having been on the receiving end of some (not as bad as some)
harsh criticism and condemnation, I can attest to it not being
pleasant at all.
But 'walking away' does seem an effective strategy – as is
relying on a medium YOU control (like a personal blog) to
respond to any criticism you want to deflect in as calm and
rational a way as you can manage.
You then have to trust on that being as visible online as the
'hate attacks' – and take solace from the view that at least
you aren't shown up as a reckless and ranting respondent to
the senseless insults and tearing down.
A 'bootcamp' on how to tackle it sure sounds like a good idea
to me
All success
Dr.Mani
Seth – these conversations have been going on about social media for a lonnnng time now. Trent Reznor is a high profile case, for sure, but women of color and feminists on line, as two examples, have had to battle the trolls for years, with situations often spinning offline as well (google Kathy Sierra and death threats as a notable case). School kids and cyberbullying is a massive and growing problem, as well, and this shares a lot of the same hallmarks.
One of the best ways to deal with trolls has been via community action or enforcing clear, strict moderation policies on blogs or chat boards (trolling going back to the usenet days and probably to ancient Greece!). Twitter, however, can't really work that way, and that's an interesting conundrum. Blocking an account when a user can just create another account and post the same hokum into the timeline doesn't seem like a solution.
Telling people to have a thicker skin doesn't solve anything. Awareness, conversation and action can. So I hope this situation does raise the level of dialogue and get the subjects of trolls and cyberbullying the attention they deserve.
Yes, I'm finding that you're right about that inner space. It's quite a project though! I'm treating it as an adventure because, as we know, adventures allow for setbacks. =)
I like the idea of using one's own blog to deflect accusations and attacks. It is very tempting to chase the hatred around the web and try to fight it in many places at the same time. (I fall into this trap regularly. Need do better about that.)
“Obnoxious clown” might actually be the perfect branding for such a bootcamp. I hope it takes place! It would be, at minimum, a very educational exercise.
Thank you Dr!
Hi Greg,
Unfortunately, and it's the nature of the beast, a rock star will get more tangible responses than either of the groups you mentioned.
“ancient Greece” ahha, perhaps I should check to see if they figured out a solution?
With Twitter, even blocking doesn't work well. They've had database issues for weeks that disable blocking and follow accounts without user interaction. It's a bit of a mess.
I'm in total agreement on the failure of “thicker skin” as it goes against the very nature of why Trent, myself, and the rest of us are here. Namely, to interact with others.
It would be great to see Trent come out of this as an activist against cyberbullying. He's definitely experiencing the victim side of things. It's quite possible that he doesn't have the support network in place that so many of us are blessed with.
Thanks!
I always wonder if the “Trolls” realize that all they are really doing is showing the world they have nothing better to do than talk about the people they are putting down?
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” — Abraham Lincoln
… that's the most un-punk thing I've ever heard
If you are rich and/or famous … and you're a fragile delicate flower … I offer my anti-hater mercenary services. $500 bucks an hour … I'll shut them ALL up … or your money back.
…and so justifies my fear of venturing beyond twitter into blogging. How can one be transparent and vulnerable without the daggers of haters? I've already been through enough – thank you and you can leave now Sorrow, Suffering and Sociopaths. But now to try and be a part of a community waiting for anything that smells/stinks of authenticity is a big big effort for me.
I admire and appreciate anyone – like you Seth – for being real. You have promoted the possibility for me to make a more graceful entrance out of isolation (although I still struggle – just saying).
More than just what we create, promote and allow; the concern is how we react to the unconscionable. To move into isolation is but a temporary retreat. Necesity is the mother of invention – and so I trust this becomes an opportunity to revere and protect honorable character.
[...] environments were “doing more harm than good in the bigger picture … Idiots rule.” (Hat tip to Seth Simonds for first spotting Reznor’s blog [...]
Trent always seemed to be one of the few celebs who understands how to use social media, shame if he really dumps it. Heck, he even shamed Apple into changing course, not many have done that. I really respect the way Trent does his own thing and says to heck with the traditional music business.
I'm not a fan of his music style, but I did download that album he was providing fro free a couple of years back – I only got to play it recently and it was better than I expected.
I always found his comments to be really interesting – a glimpse into his world on tour. I'm a bit surprised he left because I would have thought by now he had accepted that for every fan, there's probably an equal number of haters. I'm sure he'll be back and certainly hope he does.
Nice quote, Amy!
I think they do…it's about getting the attention. If you're mean to somebody for long enough, you'll get a response if they're communicative enough. It works…if your only interest is in getting a response.
Positive interactions are a whole different deal. I like those best. =)
I can always count on you! =)
You know, it might not be a bad idea to hit up Reznor with your idea to be an uberModerator…might work out well for everybody. Go get 'em!
Do you offer services on a single-serve basis?
I think its possible to put yourself out there and do it well. Why? Because 90% of the people you come in contact with will appreciate and support you. You wouldn't turn down a 10 course dinner because you didn't like how one of the courses sounded, would you? Of course not. The danger of just jumping in is that you can really be thrown by the hatred. I'd like to think that I have specific goals and I still get thrown…I definitely struggle.
It's an adventure. I keep telling myself that when I run into the surly bits. Ignoring them doesn't work. Checking in with people who believe in what I'm doing helps a lot though. Eventually, the haters seem to sink back into the mud once they realize they're not getting a response.
Let me know when you start your blog. I'll be there!
I don't think it's a 50/50 split of fans to haters. I think there might be a close ratio between rabid groupies and haters simply because they're actually very close to each other. Converting the latter to the former is the trick of it all.
I think he'll be back. It's good to take time off and find some clarity. Everybody seems to be ranting about something these days. I often wonder if the entire internet population wouldn't do well to take a day off for a picnic or something. Perhaps a few drinks. Something fun.
Thanks!
Thought I would post as I was following the entire situation with Trent on Twitter, and I am very involved with the campaign for Eric De La Cruz .
An extremely important note is that Trent's haters were pulling #Eric into it (very cruelly) and the campaign to save Erics life. “Trolling” may not be the word when there is a life on the line. If your social media haters were compromising a campaign for someone's life, I think anyone would walk away. Trent has gone overboard for Eric (see Tweet4Eric.com)
NIN is so innovatitive in their marketing that they will just create something new. I think we should look forward to what they create- it might be outstanding. NIN has been innovative and open in their business model before they were on social media sites. I am excited to see what is next.
They may just build a site that answers the question in this post.
Interesting situation, and not one we would experience to the same degree as a “celeb” I'm sure. Its funny I was commenting last night that the people I follow on twitter all seem to be overtly positive in nature with little or no negativity… I find that annoying (hard to please eh?)
I expect people to have moods, get angry, get annoyed, get passionate and even, dare I saw it, get personal. Although it sounds like Trent has had some pretty serious hate pointed in his direction most of it is complete bollocks I'm sure. (then again it only takes one loonie).
The funny thing is that Trent has experienced this now. Does that mean it was always there or it was developed because of his interaction? Does “celeb” status affect the reaction more so than us normal folk when interacting with each other? Just have to keep guessing I suppose and see how it pans out. (most other celebs wont know or care who hates them, only the ghost writers and PR people maintaining their profiles will…)
In regards checks and blocks on people who find ways and means to bypass them (new accounts etc.) doesnt blocking an account and an account being blocked by multiple people trigger a filter in twitter meaning they suspend the account and investigate it? (not sure about this, speculating).
Not sure how to stop the multi account setup by spammers and idiots. But that's been bothering us in the form of hotmail accounts for years I suppose and as twitter is free and its pretty limited to what you can do. Maybe twitter should have a paypal donate button on the account and for the healthy sum of 10 dollars you will activate the account for life. That would certainly curtail a lot of the crap.
All in all though Im actually smiling. This wouldnt have happened 5 years ago if someone had done the same thing on the NiN forum. No one would have even known about it. Nice to see Trent being normal and possibly over reacting, after all, hes only human.
Seth,
This post has come at such a perfect time for me (sorry for being selfish). In the last few days, I've been subject to abusive emails, character attacks on Twitter and questions about how transparent and ethical my 12for12k charity is.
The source(s) of these attacks are people I would have thought the last to attack. Yet, attack they did.
Accusations ranged from being “not a man of my word” to “a big fat f***ing phony”. Reasons? Not answering in what was deemed a suitable time-frame, and seeing something wasn't working so trying to move on.
Like you say, the haters will always be around, and they just need the slightest provocation. The question is in how you deal with it. Do you let it affect you deeply, or do you recognize that it's part of life and will happen?
It's easy to say, “Well, that's simple – answer number two.”
But unless you've been there, it isn't so clear-cut.
Thanks for bringing this up and good luck to Trent and the NiN guys in moving on and doing what they do.
I haven't read the comments already here (at least not yet), so I hope I'm not just repeating what's already been said.
I have come into a relationship relatively recently with someone who has a measure of micro fame. He has his share of haters. I sometimes stop reading the comments in the places he frequents because of the horrid and hateful things they say to him and about him. What they say affects *me*, because I care about him. He seems to have developed a thick skin to it, but I don't know how it doesn't affect him. Mind you, perhaps it does affect him and that's why he's somewhat cynical about the sometimes horrible people we call our fellow human beings.
I've never been one to follow celebrity 'news' since I believe that most of it is made up garbage, anyway, but also because I feel that it's none of my business to become involved in their private lives. So when people are hating on them because of something they've supposedly done, WTF business is it of mine to judge them?
Now that that kind of 'fan' behaviour affects me personally, I feel even more averse to people sticking their noses into other people's lives in horrible ways and/or judging people for things of which they may know only part of the story.
I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. I suppose I'm just frustrated that people can't play nicely with those in the public eye. Just because they choose to be known publically, doesn't mean they deserve to have their private lives dug into.
I guess what I'm saying is that I can understand where Trent Reznor is coming from and why he's made this decision. It's a shame that the trolls have won. I hope he changes his mind eventually, so that they don't win after all.
'On Twitter, at least, if there was less focus on getting followers and more focus on following people of interest, I think the system would regulate itself better.'
I'm hoping the 'follow me!' parade will die a natural death, soon.
I don't think it will. Unfortunately. Too many people take Twitter personally and believe the lines they're fed about how they need to follow everybody back in order to “foster community.”
Wow. I am sort of surprised that Trent (God bless him, BTW) took such a personal stake in what the idiots had to say. But I guess just getting beaten in for no good reason does begin to bring a guy down.
But I personally will not give in to the theory that 'idiots rule'. My guess is he'll be back better than ever.
Seth, thank you. Quite sobering and, unfortunately, not a total surprise. Fortunately there are folks who are serious about greatness and cracking the code for greater good. Genuine people participating meaningfully without fame and fortune in mind. Nutty, some say. The waters are full of gamers for sure: MegaCorps trying to use SM as a slick sales channel, a masquerade. And there are the doggers that Reznor encountered. SM is social. I hope it stays that way. Perhaps we need CM: civic media, for the greater good stuff. And for cheesy sales gen and manipulative meming, how about Buzz Media, or BM.
There is always someone that wants to be the bird who dumps one in your cup of soup. I for one would not give up stay with it love the haters and trolls that follow
you. If you believe in what your doing go for it if it is good the results will show.
Seth,
It is sad that Trent let a few people ruin his experience. Sadly, if you are in the public eye……there will be crazies that come along.
My approach has always been to ignore them, block them, and eventually those type people tend to move on……..if you disengage.
Fortunately, I've only had to do that three or four times in 10 years of being online. There have been two or three cases where I initially got really annoyed by a nasty email…….but waited…….thought about it, and then responded in a kind fashion……and those people then responded back that they were sorry, or drunk, or felt they were out of line.
If I had responded angrily……then the cycle that they were looking for would have begun. Instead I made a friend.
Just some thoughts…….it works in my case.
Good blog.
Kevin
Hey Seth,
I get this alot as a Christ-following blogger about spirituality and relationships. People with personal vendettas against me, AND negative opinions about faith…not fun!
Ignoring helps. Gracious responses help sometimes. Is Trent right? Is this world full of 'sewage'? Maybe. Or maybe it's just jealousy because they aren't in NIN. Or Maybe mom grounded them for the weekend.
No one remembers those people forever.
I'm interested to hear what you came up with…thanks Seth.
What prompted me to make a comment was actually Coralie's comment about the following me parade, I too think it's a waste of time. In another year, a lot of people will have +100,000 followers and +100,000 following…and this will help one's site, brand, whatever they might be selling etc?…..NO.
If I was a celebrity, at most I would have a blog or site with the comments Off, most or all the time.
Hi Jay,
Ignoring doesn't work. Graciousness can be good. Turn the other cheek, eh? You know the drill.
The world isn't full of sewage. It's far less than 10%, I'd say.
What am I doing? I made a comments policy. Click on the “about” in the upper right hand corner to see it.
Interesting topic. I just got some of my first haters last week and it was a little jarring. I try to respond to all my followers/commenters, but decided to just ignore this one (while allowing the comment to remain posted).
I actually asked Darren to explain how he deals with issues like this in a future Problogger episode. We'll see what comes of it.
In the meantime, how do you deal with it Seth? Do you respond? Blacklist? Ignore?
[...] 17, 2009 Trent Reznor’s (from Nine Inch Nails) recent announcement that he is leaving Social Media because of trolls sums up the need for all business to- “have a [...]
I'd say that most of them were quite aware of what they were doing. It's still very much Trolling, I think.
I'm definitely interested to see what NIN comes up with next!
I think Twitter was better about suspending accounts with multiple blocks back when they weren't spending all of their time trying to keep the service afloat.
I think the multi-issue will always be around. And that's okay. The freedom to share comes with the ability to abuse. Unfortunate, but necessary.
It's possible that Reznor simply got tired of screaming back and decided to ease up for a bit. It takes a lot of energy to be edgy. He'll be back.
Really? I'd assumed it was all going to pay for your house. =P
In truth, I'm not sure why some people go on their “authenticity rampages” that seem more like witch hunts than anything else. It's too bad.
It affects me and I recognize it as part of life.
I have people around me who believe in me no matter what the haters say. So do you. We can rely on that knowledge. We must.
Yes, it all changes when you experience the seemingly groundless hatred on personal level. People can be pretty strange sometimes.
A bit like asking the little boy why he throws rocks and birds and all you can get for an answer is a shrug. It's hard to know why people do things sometimes.
I hope he comes back. I'd like to think he will come back. He's done a lot for SM and it's too bad to see him go. Then again, everybody deserves a break and he was certainly up for one.
Thanks!
We can't ever, ever allow ourselves to believe that idiots will have the final say.
They get pretty loud sometimes, but they won't have the final say.
That's me trying to convince myself. =)
Buzz Media, I like that. Perhaps Twitter could still fun free accounts but you'd have to choose 20 biz partners to allow into your stream? Might work.
I think microblogging is definitely finding it's way and we'll see a lot of changes over the next few months in how biz and personal users leverage it for different reasons.
Hopefully it will stay as social as we'd all like.
Thanks Mark!
So concise. Such a horribly accurate image with the squawking seagull and the cup of soup. =)
I think he'll be back.
[...] am not hiding, but rather being optimistically cautious. Seth Simonds just published a blog post on Trent Reznor and the backlash of trolls. Previously, Reznor had PR [...]