You know how they start. “A Hispanic guy, a black guy, and a white guy walk into a bar…”
Sometimes the punchline is actually quite humorous and you laugh in spite of your best efforts. Some of those jokes are quite funny. Humor doesn’t make something right though.
I’d like your input on this as I’ve been wondering about it for some time.
What is the best response to a racist joke or ethnic slur when it doesn’t involve your race or ethnicity?
What if it does? Is there a difference in responses? Should there be?
What is the best response to this sort of humor when it’s shared in a professional environment?
Do you respond differently to a coworker making such a joke than you would if it were coming from your boss?
I’m full of questions. What say you?
If the joke isn't brutally cruel based on hatred and is actually structured in a hilarious way I'll laugh. I have a few examples but I fear posting them because then I'd need to write a full blown explanation on how I could laugh at these seeming atrocities. There's a fine line and some people erase it. This is a big question that can't actually be answered in depth via a short comment. Stereotypes wouldn't exist if a SMALL percentage of it wasn't true. They do not come out of thin air. Yet again that's another massive topic that needs in depth discussion. Not via a short comment.
You respond, very clearly, that there is no place in the work environment for inappropriate, potentially hurtful humor. As the good folks at ELI say, “guard your words and actions.” Regardless of intent, the impact of comments and jokes can be very negative and extremely long lasting.
I think people who make such jokes (aside from living under a rock and being neanderthals) really just don't know any better. I treat them like a child who's learning social skills. I wouldn't laugh, I'd take them aside in private and suggest the jokes are offensive and to please keep them out of the workplace. I wouldn't humiliate them, regardless. It's about education, imo.
When this happens in a non-work setting, I don't laugh, I don't smile, I don't react. Given that I'm an expressive individual, this alone is a clear sign that I'm not cool with it. If the joker is someone I'm close with, I'll let them know it's unacceptable to me to demean others or propagate prejudicial thinking. If the joke/comment is truly spiteful or venomous (as racial tensions can be quite explosive), I'll also let them know I'm disappointed with them and that I thought I was a better judge of character.
My reaction within a work setting is consistent with how I handle it privately. If my boss were to make a comment or joke that was offensive, I would walk out – even at the risk of appearing rude or disrespectful (oh, the irony).
In the end, my reactions usually foster some kind of communication, which is what I like to see. Just because you tell an off-color joke doesn't mean we can't be friends, work together, or get along. It just means we need to be clear about where we're aligned and where we're not.
When I read what I've written, my approach comes across as kinda heavy-handed or even holier-than-thou. In reality, there's a lot more subtlety to how I handle this that gets lost in the post. Sorry for that.
And Ray, it depends on where you work and how well you know your coworkers and what you find offensive. Many factors involved here. Not simply a slip of the tongue that may have been a repeat of something heard on TV.
As I said, JOKE TELLING, it's a fine line and many erase it. But the work place is tedious. Which is why I went freelancer over 6 years ago. I shy away from overly understimulated morgue clock watching pay checks.
BUT I thrive on humor. Without it life is utterly boring and deadly. When we get old and gray it will not be sex or money that keeps us happy, it will be laughter. So take it with a grain of salt in your cubie (whether in a cubie or not).
If it, a gag, does offend you speak up. Don't just feel disgruntled and whisper behind the coworkers back, tell the person straight, that was offensive. And if you can, say why.
The why is VERY important. Without the why, the anger over the joke only stifles a person who tried to lighten the darkness of the room.
There are many jokes and jokers in this world and some will get it, what the hurt was/is…some will not. But without these jokin' rascals, life is a tragedy and a tragedy without comedy is sadness incarnate.
At one time, as the employer of a retail staff of 10-15 I created a policy making sarcasm an unacceptable form of communication. As part of the process to implement this policy I conducted one on one interviews with each employee without calling out any one person's behaviour or allowing each one to assume I must be talking about someone else. Although many did not see the harm in sarcasm, didn't really understand what was the big deal, most were willing to accept the policy and give it their best to comply. The one person who wasn't (arms and legs crossed, “I like me just the way I am”) chose to find work elsewhere shortly thereafter. Within days of that person leaving, another employee came to me and said that he didn't get it when I first brought up the policy, but now that this particular person was gone, the workplace was a much calmer, friendlier, more fun place to work.
Of the individuals I've approached about their sarcasm, the one who impressed me the most is the one who said, “I didn't realize it had that effect” and actually made an effort to change. He didn't realize that the way he communicated put down a group of people that he actually cared about and that he came across exactly the opposite the way he felt about them.
Most people were raise this way. They don't get it. To challenge them effectively, you have to know and care about them–and they you. Otherwise, to challenge them feels like an attach on them, the raise they were raised, etc.
Change is hard. People have to be willing and open to seeing the world another way and from another's perspective. The only way that will happen is if and when people are willing to speak up and say, “This form of communication is not acceptable,” yet do it in a way that is caring and non-confrontational.
Neanderthals? They might be Piltdown Men, but c'mon, Neanderthals? heh.
Amusingly, the funniest people (at least in my experience) are rather bright and perceptive and very interesting individuals who have lived a rough life and survived via humor. They are not in a cave.
Once again no one seems to be defining what is racist…what is “your definition” of racism? Basically it sounds like you are saying that any joke at all mentioning race is an outrage. I don't agree with you in the slightest and I am of the race that has been slighted since birth. As well as of the gender that has been slighted since birth.
What is “racist”?
And should all jokes be cencorsed in the dreadfully boring work place?
Or will there be a chart and graph of what is OKAY funny and what is NOT?
Seriously?
<augh> the typos…that paragraph should have read:
Most people were raised this way. They don't get it. To challenge them effectively, you have to know and care about them–and they you. Otherwise, to challenge them feels like an attack on them, the raise they were raised, etc.
* * *
Meanwhile, nice to read the other comments that came in while I was typing– that there are indeed other people in this world who “get it.” Rebeccanewton is right–most people just don't know any better, don't realize it…it's pervasive in our culture.
Yay team!
Whether funny on the surface or not, this type of humor is always offensive – because it's always belittling and dehumanizing – and certainly is always inappropriate in the workplace. It's an easy way to gain attention and shouldn't be reinforced. Laugh if you can't help it but follow up with a “take that outside” response, as you would with any misplaced grandstanding.
“Always offensive” to who? Everyone? I think not. Grrrr… bailing on this post. Not a single soul here has any definition of what is “racist”. I've shot my wad. Seth how about a new post soon on what racism is, with a FAT biggie, bam boom Question Mark…because it is surely not just an off color joke by the water cooler, that may be told by a person who hasn't a racist bone in their body. May only be a repeat from a TV show.
For one, if I, as a mostly black person (mostly and WHY, only because my skin is dark and having nothing to do with my heritage) TELLS a joke about my own race, my many races…Oh gee, am I a racist. Not at all. Ciao.
Lots of dynamics at play here, is it a co-worker, boss, client, etc.. But the best luck I've had is to stop before you even get to the punchline with an upfront, low voice, but not harsh “You can't go there around here. Not cool.” Accompanied with a “Whaddaya nuts!?” kind of expression. It's worked for me with close coworkers, overheard conversations, and over-eager clients trying to break the ice. Best not to stomp anyone down, but giving them a lighthearted “check-yourself” can stop something before it gets unintentionally out-of hand. It's nearly always unintentional, but you never know who is overhearing and taking offense.
Races, nationalities, genders and ages can be caricatured. Anything can, really. We joke about the “old lady driving in front of us” and we can all relate – we know she's probably doing 45 in a 65. She could be the sweetest lady in the world, and the joke does not take anything away from that.
Avoid jokes that are especially put-down and unkind. If the punchline is “this particular kind of person is intrinsically _____” than practice self-control, you oaf, and bite your tongue.
Consider your audience. Make sure they know who you are before you make a questionable joke or comment, so that it has context. Don't tell the joke about the bald guy in front of the new guy who happens to be bald. Unless you're very good at reading people, you don't have enough history between you to pull it off.
Be willing to laugh at yourself. If you aren't able to lightheartedly make fun of yourself, you have no business lightheartedly making fun of others. FWIW, I laugh the hardest at Irish jokes and sometimes the posts at http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ make me fall off my seat.
Always be ready to give account for what you said. “Yes, I did say that. I didn't mean for it to offend, please forgive me for offending you. I will try to be more considerate of you in the future.” OR, “You know, you're right. Thanks for confronting me about that one. It did cross the line, and I should be more careful.” If you can't own up or back down from a joke for someone else's sake, you probably think more highly of yourself than of others and shouldn't talk at all.
If you are kind and loving to everyone you meet, an occasional well-placed non-politically correct joke does not harm.
You seem to have had a very negative work experience before you became a freelancer.
I'm sorry about that but it doesn't entitle you to assume you know the details of everybody else's work environment.
As you said, you can't define something like racism in a short comment. A bit unfair to expect others to do what you said was impossible, no?
I did not say I had a bad work experience. What I said is that I do not like to work in cubies and that implies I do not like confined spaces. I surely did not leave and become a freelancer because someone made an off color joke and I also did not imply that people would leave an indepth comment since it's mostly a drive-by just agreeing with you. Your post, to be sure, is not asking a specific question it's loose. And when it comes to race there is nothing loose about it.
Of course, the best answer is always the lamest: It Depends.
It depends on whether or not the source of the racist comment is your kid, neighbor, dad, boss, mom, co-worker, or a stranger on a bus. If it happened at work, it depends on the culture of the organization. It depends on whether or not you've got a good relationship with this individual or not, specifically whether or not this person is likely to listen to you and take any stock in what you have to say.
But, for the sake of argument, let's just say that this happened at work, everyone is a peer, and someone starts with “So a black guy, a Hispanic guy, and a white guy walk into a bar …” The first thing to do is steel yourself so you don't laugh, even if you want to. If you can't help laughing, because some part of you still finds racist humor really, really funny, then it's possible that you have some of your own work to do before you start challenging the racism of other people. You might also consider giving the comedian a “look” as a warning, as if to say “I may not be cool with where you're headed here.” Then, once the joke has been told, communicate simply and in the way that will work for the relationship at hand, that the joke isn't funny. It could be, “I don't find that funny” or “that's really not appropriate” or “Dude. Way not funny. Seriously? Not okay” (or, in a pinch, look really sad and tell the jokester that you were adopted as a young child and raised in a black family).
I've never tried that one, actually. Could backfire, come to think of it. Hm.
Sadly, the PC crowd have made virtually every single joke or comment either racist, sexist, ageist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, anti-Muslim, anti-Christian, anti…. well, you get my point.
I'm with @CTK1 here – there are different “levels” of what would be classed as inappropriate. I'm Scottish; I lived an worked in England for 15 years. There's a history of “non-like” between a lot of Scottish and English people. Personally, I think it's stupid, and should be condemned to a bygone age.
But I get called a haggis-eating Jock twat by my co-workers. Is that racist? To me, no, even though they're not calling me Scottish. I'm called honky by two of my black friends. Is that racist? Maybe to some people. To me – no. It's bantering between friends. Same goes for work colleagues. Most people have better relationships with work colleagues than they do with friends or lovers – it's natural, you spend so much time with them. So you know (or should) what's offensive and what isn't.
If you find something offensive to you, take it up there and then. But ask them why they think it's fine and explain why you think it's offensive – you never know, you might have more in common than you think.
It's getting to the stage you can't say nothing now, and that's a sad state of affairs. Maybe Orwell was right…
I think this whole blog is racist. There, I said it. Is it true? Hard to tell. This blog hypothetical is so vaporous it's difficult to really dispute any of it. One thing for sure, though, I don't think this blog should ever be viewed in the workplace. It is sooooo inappropriate. Isn't it? By the way, I hate the clown; everybody hates clowns. That's probably racist, too.
Good for you, Ed – though I think it's probably clownist or circusist, no
In most of cases I answer this questions for myself before reacting:
Is it feeding the hate towards someone, or some inferiority/superiority?
If yes, it is unhealthy, and should be not tolerated. How that is shown, its up for the person.
Stereotypes are nothing too dangerous, although rarely correct. And they are not always negative (at least here). Even more, most of the cases they show both positive and negative sides of each of the participant if you look closer.
Sure, cruel jokes ( or cruelty in general) should not be tolerated in work environment. But you know, stopping signs of the hate/prejudice (like ethnic jokes) and stopping hate/prejudice itself is quite different things. Stopping signs of the problem will not always lead to solving a problem. If a problem is jokes itself, you can stop them. But if the problem is the prejudice people have, it is difficult to change these persons.
I love this! Something to go on, a place to start a real discussion.
And so true, this is:
“If you find something offensive to you, take it up there and then. But ask them why they think it's fine and explain why you think it's offensive – you never know, you might have more in common than you think.
It's getting to the stage you can't say nothing now, and that's a sad state of affairs. Maybe Orwell was right…”
Hi Danny,
“I think it's stupid and should be condemned to a bygone age.”
I'm with you on that, but how does one navigate the conversations that are happening right now? It's simple to say that colleagues know each other so this won't be an issue…but what about the new employee, the client, or all the people who actually take issue with comments made but don't have the chops to speak up about it?
I think the “PC crowd” may have taken some things a bit far in their focus on symptoms instead of root causes. The root causes are no fun to deal with.
As to your second response, Disqus continues to be an issue with an ungainly moderation system that doesn't sync with Wordpress whatsoever. I unapproved the thread last night because it really didn't seem to add anything to the discussion. Disqus seems to have pulled your reply with it.
As soon as they release the threading, I'm thinking it's time to drop the plug-in.
Thanks and sorry if there was any misunderstanding!
I have a very simple set of rules about jokes. Let me address each of your questions in one reply.
Laugh if its funny.
Pretty simple really. If we are not careful we wont be able to tell jokes before long because it will end up offending someone from some group somewhere and that's called misery. I prefer being offended to being miserable.
At least if I'm offended I'm thinking about something I may not have thought about previously. If I'm miserable I'm just thinking about me and thats not helping anyone.
well-said! I like the idea of “if I'm offended I'm thinking about something
I may not have thought about previously.” It'd be interesting to see what
others say on that.
Thanks Justin!
Good points, especially the third. If we are confident in our beliefs and
have the strength of character to stand by them, I think we give real
communication a boost. Tough stuff and I really appreciate your input!
Automattic is the Wordpress guys. My issue is still the hijacking of comment
threads. If Disqus releases them or ID comes up with a way to extract them,
I'd consider a switch or just my normal comments. The out-of-the-box
comments from Woo are quite lovely.
Good question! I've been pretty lucky so far…not only is the federal gov't full of people who always err on the side of being pc (at least in terms of race), but it's also full of people who _know_ that they have no business trying to be funny, and therefore don't even try.
I always find it amusing when people make racial comments/jokes in front of me, as I am mixed, and it is often difficult (if not impossible) for most people to know exactly what I am. I do tend to laugh if the joke is funny…I like funny! Only once in my memory have I ever called someone out for being un-funnily racist. The “joke” was basically the equivalent of, “Haha, Professor West is black so he sucks at academics.” Uhh…right. I don't think the guy who said it had any idea that I am black, and was pretty shocked when I called him out on it (and stormed out of the room, as I tended to do in my brash college days). Perhaps that wasn't the best way to handle it…but it definitely got my point across.
Yeah, that's not funny. Goes with the group of “your mama” jokes and the
people who enjoy telling those.
I tend to laugh at jokes that make witty plays on stereotypes.
There are a lot of jokes out there that don't rely on crushing a specific
group of people in order to make a point. Those are the best ones!
Agreed. See, ifs it funny laugh,if not though I wouldn't storm away, especially with that sad effort of a “joke”. Christ, even calling that inane attempt at humor a joke is an affront to all things funny.
I wonder if he would have laughed had you clocked him one in the mouth. Now, you see, that would have been funny and even had he called assault you could call racism, which is worse?
Justin–don’t think I didn’t think about it! I definitely took a moment to consider my options: clock him, call him out, leave without saying anything, or demand that he be removed from the comedy writing proceedings (which I probably could have gotten away with because I was much more involved with the other people there than he was). The 5-pager on Ezra Pound I had to write definitely figured into the storming out calculus…but to this day, I’m glad I said something before I left.
Usually, I put my hands next to my mouth, megaphone style, and say “laaaaaaaame joooooooooooooke”
I’m dealing with this now…I work in a very small Family owned company.
The owner (who proclaims very loudly) about being a christian often uses the “N” word in jokes and just general conversation…Other races,
sexual orientation, etc. are also fair game. Although I am not of the race that is being discriminated against, I am very offended by the racial overtones in the conversation. Not only does the person own the company but he is someone that never admits to doing anything wrong. So I am unsure how to handle the situation. I have spoken to them regarding other items only to be told that “You are the only person who is having a problem with this.” I need help dealing with this matter
For the first time in my life I actually interrupted a co-worker for ranting on about “fxxxing pakis” infront of me and our boss.
I was offended and told him so, however he just went on to say that a woman only serves two roles; cooking and “spreading her legs”.
Perhaps the conversation was too little too late, I had many instances of insubordination from the co-worker infront of other colleages and even my boss, however nothing was said. It was always tolerated.
It seems as if people have no idea how to conduct themselves in the work place, they just rant on until it suits them to go home. If you speak out you are seen as some up tight PC type. If you say nothing you are a jolly good team player.
I say speak out if it bothers you and document it. If a boss is present put it in writing anyway.
The boss could be part of the problem and will deny everything if things turn ugly and you, the complainer will be seen as the bad guy.